Bawse
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What software if any do you think competes with Xenforo? I think all forums if money isn't a issue should start with Xenforo.
Do any forum software compare to Xenforo?
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Why? That's a valid question. While xenforo is good there are better options.Some are even free like Discourse.
Development time and communication is sorely lacking. If you like to wait years for new releases, not point releases that are bug fixes, then yes xenforo is a good choice. If you like it that the devs only post to defend the software and never give any real info then again yes it's good.
The same used to said about vBulletin. Look at it now. Pay close attention to the xenforo customer forums. Notice that that staff is only interested in post off topic stuff like the drama thread? It's to divert people away from the lack of development or from having to give out any real information.
Development time and communication is sorely lacking. If you like to wait years for new releases, not point releases that are bug fixes, then yes xenforo is a good choice. If you like it that the devs only post to defend the software and never give any real info then again yes it's good.
The same used to said about vBulletin. Look at it now. Pay close attention to the xenforo customer forums. Notice that that staff is only interested in post off topic stuff like the drama thread? It's to divert people away from the lack of development or from having to give out any real information.
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I think it really depends on what YOU (the admin) find to be the best.
Personally, I lean toward XenForo more than any of them, but that's mainly because I'm used to it. I think the other paid options, like Invision and maybe even vb6, can compete, but it depends on what the end-user is looking for in a platform.
As @AWS mentioned, free platforms might even be able to compete. I know plenty of people who swear by phpBB or SMF and would never go with XenForo.
That might sound strange to you and me, but we're used to XF, and they're used to the platform they use.
To me, this is like the "iPhone vs. Android" argument.
In all honesty, you can make free software do everything a paid software can do probably by spending the amount of a paid software cost of premium add-ons. Just some food for thought, haha!
Personally, I lean toward XenForo more than any of them, but that's mainly because I'm used to it. I think the other paid options, like Invision and maybe even vb6, can compete, but it depends on what the end-user is looking for in a platform.
As @AWS mentioned, free platforms might even be able to compete. I know plenty of people who swear by phpBB or SMF and would never go with XenForo.
That might sound strange to you and me, but we're used to XF, and they're used to the platform they use.
To me, this is like the "iPhone vs. Android" argument.
In all honesty, you can make free software do everything a paid software can do probably by spending the amount of a paid software cost of premium add-ons. Just some food for thought, haha!
Cpvr
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I think Discourse and Nodebb along with Invision Community compare to Xenforo.
I like the things that they’ve all been doing lately. I’m a fan of Xenforo, but I also keep tabs on other forum software as well.
I like the things that they’ve all been doing lately. I’m a fan of Xenforo, but I also keep tabs on other forum software as well.
Tracy
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I think the main issue is, what do you want to offer your users?
If it is just posting content in a forum format, then Xenforo is one of the better paid options (notice I said paid) in the bang for the buck field.
But i you want to do stuff like federation using ActivityPub (which is apparently becoming the "in thing"), then you really need to look elsewhere.
NodeBB, which is free for self hosting is a very decent offering. Yes, it's different from other scripts, and users who are used to Xenforo may not like it (I've already had that feedback on my sites - #1 (yes, it is also a jab in the eye at Xenforo), #2 and #3). I personally have grown to like NodeBB, and really appreciate the drive to offer a more modern feeling script than what many are used to. It doesn't hurt that they'v recently enabled federation using ActivityPub, which means it can communicate with various other sites that use that protocol.
If it is just posting content in a forum format, then Xenforo is one of the better paid options (notice I said paid) in the bang for the buck field.
But i you want to do stuff like federation using ActivityPub (which is apparently becoming the "in thing"), then you really need to look elsewhere.
NodeBB, which is free for self hosting is a very decent offering. Yes, it's different from other scripts, and users who are used to Xenforo may not like it (I've already had that feedback on my sites - #1 (yes, it is also a jab in the eye at Xenforo), #2 and #3). I personally have grown to like NodeBB, and really appreciate the drive to offer a more modern feeling script than what many are used to. It doesn't hurt that they'v recently enabled federation using ActivityPub, which means it can communicate with various other sites that use that protocol.
Tracy
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My biggest issue with Xenforo is their glacially slow pace of end user feature updates.
But a lot of that is their core dependence on outside developers to extend the bare-bones features they typically do offer. This habit of offering a basic implementation of something instead of taking the little extra time of rounding it out has been commented on by others.
As a forum, it is a solid script, but as a more inclusive offering for a website it is lacks the chops. There are some free scripts that are starting to surpass what Xenforo offers as a forum only offering. NodeBB is a good example.
I linked to 3 of my NodeBB sites above. There is not feature parity between them, but NodeBB has moved from 3.0.3 since I started using it a few months ago and is already on
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They're on version 2.3, which is a significant difference, as second-point releases have added features, while 3rd point (2.0.0 -> 2.0.1) only addresses bug fixes.
Going from 2.4 (the next 2nd point release) to 3.0 will be a 1st point release because it has a significant change that we can expect in the style, with perhaps even more features than 2.4 (or 2.5 as they suggested) too. I hope that the style brings it more up-to-date with social media-like interaction and navigation, but I'm not really holding my breath on that.
Either way, I think XenForo is the best as you can easily add any feature that any other forum software has. It just costs you time to learn or money to outsource it.
Invision is something like $200 every 2 years or your license is suspended? No thanks. I have some licenses still on 2.2 (one on 2.0) that are expired, and 2.0/2.2 works just fine for a starter community. Why pay to upgrade the license and launch on 2.3 when I can do it for "free" on 2.2, then pay the $60+ to upgrade to 2.3/2.4/3.0 after it grows enough? I might be wrong about the license being suspended, @AWS could fill in if I'm wrong here.
To me "Xenforo is just a forum" is not how I look at it: It's a complete engine. I could turn off the forum on Forum Directory and have it work solely as a forum directory with listings, etc. with the add on it uses to accomplish that.
To further expand on that, with one example, I also have intentions to build a text-based game on it (possibly, as I'm still investigating other engines and their capabilities with user groups/permissions/etc.), and looking into "Allowed thread types" (Discussions, Polls, Articles, Questions) to expanding that to "MAP" (in a custom add on). This is so that I can build out a grid of 1000x1000 (1,000,000 "threads") with custom fields in the "MAP" to execute different tasks, like finding in-game money, for instance. The forum display wouldn't be how it is as a forum, rather a 1000x1000 "image" (each image like 10px x 10px to make up a full image with 1,000,000 threads) and you can start at position 1,1, but only move into thread 2,1 or 1,2 from there to see what's in that location on the MAP with your Avatar overlayed on the map where you are.
A quick mock-up of thread types being a MAP in the forum view:
I could move to red (2, 1) in thread "2" or green (2, 1) in thread "1001". Each thread would have an event executed, or nothing at all, when visited, and I would limit moves per day.
So much to do outside the box from a traditional forum on XenForo compared to alternatives.
If Invision lets you develop, it could hypothetically do the same, but it wouldn't be cost-effective with the developers I could take on for XF over Invision.
I also plan on a Project Management System with the full 9 yards like Ghant charting, etc., which would have "forums" so different projects could have a discussion area, but it wouldn't be a "just a forum" at that point either.
Granted, if you had to choose, choose what's best for you, as you need to keep an open mind that it will take a lot of time and/or money to get XenForo to where you want it to be, but it could be at Invision's level with the right work behind it (if that's what you were going for), or you could just choose Invision from the beginning.
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Tracy
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It's not suspended... it's invalidated and you have to buy a new license if you don't renew in 2 years.
Their reasoning behind this from what I understood was allegedly to help pay for the self-hosted option as they had clients that were not renewing regularly and might go 2-3 years before they did and they got "all the new goodies" without having to for it like others did with regular renewals. In reality it was not a semi-guaranteed revenue stream like they get with their SaaS offering so they came up with a way to make it "semi-regular".
Kind of a screwed view in some ways, but we are talking software and vendors/developers make choices that would not work in with other products (like a vehicle as a certain manufacturer found out when they tried to push subscription for certain services like being able to remote start or heated seats).
You don't think those other scripts have similar abilities?
Part of the issue is that you DO need add-ons to do some of the stuff that Invision offers in their core software package offering. And you DO have to pay for those add-ons, frequently with it ending up costing you as much if not more than the entire Invision suite package does.
Invision - full package $499/$199 (purchase/renewal)
(for my site as a comparison)
XenForo (1st party add-ons)
Forum $195/$60
XFMG $70/$15
XFRM $70/15
ES $60/$10
3rd party to get similar offerings
AMS $75/$35 or $55/$25 (this can be done in Invision with Pages but not at same level)
Link Directory $75/$4 or $55/$25 (this can be done in Invision with Pages but not at same level)
Classifieds $75/$35 or $55/$25 (this can be done in Invision with Pages but not at same level)
Reviews $75/$35 or $55/$25 (this can be done in Invision with Pages but not at same level)
Social Groups $50/$37
Calendar $60/$30
So, by my math, that's $725 minimal buy-in with a $267 yearly renewal to get into Xenforo to get equivalent to what Invision can offer. Both exceed what Invision costs.
Now, if you don't need/use all those other features it is a different matter but ironically I have found many admins that have "suddenly" found uses for those "I don't need/want them" features in the past.
With Invision it will take some (actually a lot) of extra work to get Pages where I would want it at, but then you would also usually have a bespoke function that may be better tailored to your site. It really depends on your skill level of dealing with the systems invovled.
But when comparing costs, one needs to do an apples to apples comparison and not a pineapple to lime one.
The first step is always first laying out what you want your site to offer then start looking at what comes closest to providing that natively.
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IT's $195 renewal each year. If you don't renew for 2 years the license lapse and you have to buy new at $495.
This is kind of misleading because even with my licenses in a scenario that you suggested, I could run an operational forum (keep in mind a forum is built for discussions and not "features") on XenForo 2.0, which with the latest release of December 11, 2018, and not renewed, would have cost me $585 in renewals from Invision or I would have lost a license and had to pay an additional $495.
XenForo and all of the add ons you listed are stable on 2.0, albeit lacking functions, and still work.
That said, I did receive errors on a 2.2 installation running on PHP 8.3. However, the functionality still worked. I would have had to investigate further to see if it really was necessary to downgrade to PHP or if the errors could have been ignored. If 2.0 and 2.1 work on PHP 8, after I see what the problem is, I could probably patch XenForo to not error out and work as intended at this point, saving me the suggested renewal costs. With PHP 8 having end-of-security updates after about January 2024, that would be my only cause of concern.
I'd have to toy with XF 2/2.1/2.2 on PHP 8.4, which has end-of-security updates Jan. 2029, to see if it could be functional out of the box (and run for many more years without renewal), or see what effort I'd need to put into patching XF to "downgrade" it for compatibility, and see if the costs outweigh the license updates for a newer version. But, say I have 25 forums on 2.3 and run them till 2029, patching PHP and XF to work, that would still save me nearly $10,000 in Invision renewals (or lose my licenses).
In the scope of things, having that many forums, $10,000 shouldn't be much to even be concerned about, as not only is it a tax write-off, but I should be making much more than that to not care. However, all forums need to be uniform on a specific version so that I don't need tech to run around patching things on, say, 2.3.1 and 2.3.2 and 2.3.6. After a certain forum number count, they will likely all settle on 1 version and I'll fork that to work for 5-10 years as doing that will save manpower vice upgrading when not really necessary.
Tracy
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No, generally if you want to use the latest "add-ons" you have to update to the latest Xenforo (specifically in the case of XenAddons offerings).
That was the only reason I upgraded my site to the 2.3.x line was the add-ons. It sure wasn't because of anything that Xenforo brought to the table.
And I'm not referring to a
simple forum (which is the hue and cry I regularly hear from Xenforo supporters about what Xenforo is). I am talking about a fully functional website that offers the wealth of features that many internet users look for now, not something that was popular back in the early 2000's. That is a mindset that way to many forum admins are still stuck in, thinking a simplistic forum format will satisfy todays internet user.With Invision, you can continue to use your installation as long as you want. It doesn't quit working at the end of 2 years. You simply cannot buy a new upgrade to the license after that point, having to purchase a new license for it. Almost everything that is not cloud based will continue to work (their anti-spam feature is one that will not).
By far, the majority of admins keep their licenses current with renewals. There are not enough new licenses being sold to support most software developers offerings - their bread & butter is from the renewals. And if you aren't bringing your clients new features, those renewals will do exactly what you are referring to... slack off until the developer provides a version that brings something that the license holder needs/wants. How many people did not (and still have not) upgraded to 2.3.x from their 2.2.16/17 installs because 2.3.x line has not brought any major feature improvements/additions?
At least with Invision, they are providing improvements that encourage license renewals.
When taking that into consideration, the cost outlay I provided is correct to provide current & comparative offerings. Now, if you are one that doesn't keep your license renewed and do not mind running older, no longer supported software and only update infrequently, then that's a different matter. Because then the only cost is your initial one. But as I pointed out, the buy in cost to get Xenforo and Invision on equal footing is higher for Xenforo.
The benefit that XF has is that you CAN renew after two years. And as I noted, that Invision restriction is not one that I necessarily agree with, but I do see their argument even though I find it rather hard to justify.
If you are classified as a business.. then yes you can classify it as a business expense. And if you are running 25 forums, the very thing you comment on is not a major issue as most businesses I know tend to keep their software up to date, either by keeping their licenses current or having someone in house/contracted to do it for them.
But generally, you will find people only running 1-5 forums as a "hobby/small business" type environment. And for them, the costs for feature parity are not that much different.
But sorry, I and many others don't get to write ANY of those costs off on our taxes.
Oh, and I should mention, I'm far from being an Invision apologist. I have other issues with their offering, but I can look at stuff in an unbiased way.
That's not entirely true either. You reference a lot of Bob's add ons. They can also expire and run quite well for the version they were designed for. Sure, they'd lack the newest bells and whistles, but if you just wanted to run a simple blog, there's no reason to keep renewing AWS and updating it if it works for your current needs at that time.
So the same as XenForo.
But a hefty penalty if you let it lapse when it's been working the entire time and you finally decide to give it a refresh 3 years later.
Neither you nor I can answer that. That said, they look pretty healthy for having as many staff on board as they do. I'm eagerly awaiting a new filing to see how much Cloud has impacted their earnings.
XENFORO LIMITED filing history - Find and update company information - GOV.UK
XENFORO LIMITED - Free company information from Companies House including registered office address, filing history, accounts, annual return, officers, charges, business activity
find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk
You can't have that much transparency with Invision to know if Cloud is really supporting them over self-hosted, or even if they have cash in the bank to support the possible debt they may carry. It could be on the verge of bankruptcy as far as we know, just by comparing XF's headcount to theirs and the cash in the bank while taking market share into account (which XenForo already has a lead on, especially if we discount those still on IPB/IPS).
We're talking apples and oranges as I have mentioned that XF is developer friendly. For someone like me, I will have "no longer supported software" that is self-supported on a locked-in version for an unknown term because I will "fork" (extend XenForo) across all forums to my vision of a forum, much like Fora is XenForo, but "not".
But, is it really bad to run unsupported software if it works and you know how to maintain it? No. You can save $60/yr by being tech savvy and hardening yourself.
Further, just because it's unsupported, doesn't mean XF's community doesn't support it. You can find quite a few security fixes by members posting DIFFs to update your 2.0 version to have the security it needs (not going to dig up posters that made DIFF threads to update out-of-date and unsupported XF versions, but I've seen them).
If you're running more than 1 (up to 5 I would say), you should have enough to pay $199 for a Registered Agent in Wyoming and renew the business for $60. There are much more benefits to this than just a tax write-off, say if you start producing a bit of money, a line of credit to grow.
But, also running under a corporation with just 1 gives you some personal immunity from civil and criminal suits. Not to go off on a tangent here, but if the UK is going to implement a bunch of BS laws, and your forum doesn't follow them, it would be much better to have United Kingdom v. YourForum Co. than United Kingdom v. Tracey (also anybody else that wants to sue, like if you unknowingly have pirated images hosted, etc.). Just saying...
Tracy
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Usually latest means the most recent.
And to do that, you have to use the latest (most recent) Xenforo. Bob does not backdate updates/new features into older versions. And currently his add-ons are the most comprehensive that will get Xenforo onto par with what can be done by the Invision suite in many aspects.
Again... that depends. If you have gone 3 years it's cheaper than having paid the renewals for that 3 year period.
Remember... compare like offerings to like offerings. It's not kosher trying to compare the cost of a simple forum script to a more fully encompassing site suite.
Even though I don't (and can't) post over on the XF site, I can still read there and other places. And plenty of long time XF license holders have commented about how they have held off on upgrading as 2.3 did not bring them anything worth jumping through the hoops that they would have to for an upgrade. Many are still awaiting the 2.4 release for a new editor. And you and I both know that it is only a SMALL sub-set of license holders that are active on the XF site.
They have stated as such. Last I heard only about 20% of their licensing was based upon self-hosted. That means that 80% of it is based upon their SaaS offering at that time. That was also during the period that they would only say that the self-hosting would be through v5. Now they have made commentary that the new licensing format was to extend that as long as possible with their new licensing requirements.
And so is Invision... for those that are familiar with it. If "developer welcoming" that is a different matter. But the script itself is not any more (or less) complicated to code for than Xenforo or any other script.
You really want to try to have that argument?
I don't think a 0.02% difference is that much. In fact I would argue that if Invision can do what does with almost the same market share, then what is Xenforo's excuse for doing less with more?
You want some more interesting stats... click on the number URL and look at the income comparisons for the sites.
Don't forget... just the same as you try to discount older versions of Invision, the same applies for Xenforo. I still use several sites that are running Xenforo 1.x.
As an example, from XF's stats they gave a 12 week post 2.3 release uptake:
2.0: 8%
2.1: 8%
2.2: 61%
2.3: 23%
So over 77% of folks were still on older 2.x versions. They didn't even include the 1.x folks in that number, probably realizing that many of them wouldn't be rushing to upgrade anyway.
Remember... we aren't just talking (and you brought it into the mix) about 2.x. I have seen plenty of pleas for help on the 1.x line be ignored, as well as many for 2.0, 2.1 and even now 2.2. Mainly because those that are active participants over there generally are on the newer versions, which is what I commented on about the small number of license holders that actually participate on the support site. And you generally will get zero official support for 1.x/2.0 versions, other than being told it's fixed in a newer version.
Only if wanting to run the site as as business. There are other requirements that come into play, one being federal taxes.
Not everyone runs their site with the intent to monetize it. I have contemplated incorporation into a 501(c)3, but not for tax purposes per-se (from my POV) but from one that would allow local businesses to donate to the site for outreach efforts to local schools and citizens and be able to write those donations off.
The niche I am in is ideal for that type of filing, and there are several that are ran that way. The main reason I don't is the additional overhead of "government" into the mix.
As for lawsuits.... That's why you have to keep up with moderation on your site and have rules in place that outline what is expected/allowed and what is not and also what is expected from those that want to file a complaint for infringment.
Code:
DMCA Process
Complaint Notice Procedures for Copyright Owners
The following elements must be included in your copyright infringement claim:
An electronic or physical signature of the owner (or a person authorized to act on behalf of the owner) of an exclusive copyright-related right that is allegedly infringed.
Identification of the copyrighted work claimed to have been infringed, or if a single notice objects to several copyrighted works at a single online site, a representative list of the infringed works on this site.
A "representative list" should identify every work if there are less than ten such works and at least half of the works if there are ten or more such works.
Identification of the material that is claimed to be infringing or to be the subject of infringing activity and that is to be removed or access to which is to be disabled, and information reasonably sufficient to permit Astro What? Forum to locate the material. This should include the exact URL and the date on which the infringement was noted.
Information reasonably sufficient to permit Astro What? Forum to contact the complaining party. If at all possible, this should include an electronic mail address, and should include a mailing address, telephone number, and fax number.
A statement that the complaining party has a good faith belief that the allegedly infringing use of the material at issue is not authorized by the copyright owner, its agent, or the law.
A statement that the information in the notice is accurate, and under penalty of perjury, that the complaining party is authorized to act on behalf of the owner of an exclusive right that is allegedly infringed.
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Please allow at least three business days to process any complaint or counter-notification. Astro What? Forum will process these items as rapidly as possible, but cannot predict the number of active items it may have at any given time.
Repeat Infringers
Infringement of the copyrights of others violates the Terms of Service for all of Astro What? Forum computing systems and networks.
Under appropriate circumstances, Astro What? Forum may restrict or terminate the access of its system or network users who are repeat infringers. Astro What? Forum will cooperate with copyright holders if it believes that any repeat infringer's activity is both (a) persistent and (b) willful and/or for purposes of financial gain, and such cooperation may include, among other things, the release of otherwise private user information after appropriate notification and (if necessary) due process of lawAnd thankfully, we have SLAPP related protections here in Texas. File a lawsuit that is ruled to be bogus... then you as the filer are out of money... and they can allow rather aggressive recovery efforts.
Xenforo has it's place. But for a more complete website, it takes a lot more investment to get it there since, as it's cheerleaders keep reminding us, it is a "forum only" script. And starting a forum only site up in todays internet user age is almost an assured way to not be successful unless you have a particular type of niche that folks will pay for. That used to be porn, but now you can find that everywhere on the internet for free.
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That's the distribution amongst 1,000,000 top sites. You need to look at the pie chart to see which forum has the market share for forums.You really want to try to have that argument?
I don't think a 0.02% difference is that much. In fact I would argue that if Invision can do what does with almost the same market share, then what is Xenforo's excuse for doing less with more?
It's 11% XF and 9% Invision.
I have one forum that I am going to incorporate as a 501(c)(3) as well for my philanthropy outreach. But, it also gives me pass-through income to pay 0 taxes, and to directly help those that I want to help, as I don't see the Federal government doing it. But, that's a tangent on its own.
And if it's not SLAPP? Your boards are probably not big enough to warrant a need to counsel, but imagine handling 1,000,000+. Many things could take place on a forum of that size that requires full-time counsel to run things by (I know from experience).
Slap some porn up on a XF site and I guarantee you that you'll earn money.
This basically just comes down to us having different uses and likes and dislikes. We could argue to the bitter end and neither of us are going to change each other's mind. Good luck with your forums on NodeBB (and Invision if you have any).
Tracy
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Wow... a WHOLE 2%.
Again... being that "close" and one company being able to have more developers and advance their script the way they have and another not... has to make one wonder doesn't it. Especially when you see none of the signs of "impending doom" that you want to infer.
Now... pay a little more attention to their income statistics for those sites they list.
And then you are usually in the realm of having corporate lawyers on hand/retainer.
As for not being "slappy".... if you write your rules and notification requirements well enough, you can avoid most of those that are very engaging, assuming you follow your outline of requirement(s).
Not a lot when you can simply go to Google and search for it easily. xHamster and a few others are no longer distributing to certain states, but other sites like XVideo and such are.
Yes, I still have to delve into that crap as I offer technical assistance to a few local agencies for free since I did it prior to my retirement.
Not really. Are you actually trying to tell us that the full suite of Xenforo 1st party offerings compares to what Invision offers?
Realize... I really have no great love of either set of script developers, and I look at both for what they bring to the table, not what my personal feelings want to bring into the mix.
I have forums on Xenforo and NodeBB currently and provide tech assistance to another site using NodeBB. I personally will not invest back into the Invision envronment. So that in itself should be VERY telling to you on what my outlook is. I simply don't drink the Xenforo Flavor-Aid.
I realize that every script has its positives and its negatives and have no issues with relaying my viewpoint of them to others.
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Those are estimates. The Big Board I worked for cleared millions, so I'm sure it alone made up for some of those revenue stats (I don't know exactly what you're looking at).Now... pay a little more attention to their income statistics for those sites they list.
But this shows the health of XenForo 2.0 over Invision much better.
Which I do.
You would need to pass it through legal to make it more enforceable. But, even then, if you're not doing your job and things sneak by in DMs, you could be hit.
I still think an image dump on XF would do quite well. I just haven't cleared it with XenForo before I do it to ensure the license wouldn't be pulled as it's in a grey area for their licensing terms of service.
This is how I made hundreds of dollars a month as a teen. Luckily, the checks didn't come from (what would be known then) "XHamster" or something, rather something desceet like "Taylor Income Sources" (generic name) as the checks came in my mother's name. Monthly rev-split was awesome (30% of all renewals each month they stayed a member, stacking member upon member). Though. I don't think it converts as well now, but I'm not getting back into the industry (yet) to know whether it's as lucrative as it was (pre-free sites); though, people still do join paid sites.
No, I literally said,
As my vision for XF is different and it will eventually be better than both Invision and XenForo out-of-the-box.
Your opinion could explain the drastic decline in Invision usage over XF (screenshots referenced above).
Tracy
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Still equates to a minimal number. But ahead and try to defend Xenforo.
In fact, YOUR stats point even MORE to why isn't XF doing more than it is if hey are bigger than Invision in licenses sold and all the other crap you are trying to promulgate. If they are that successful monetarily, why are they failing that severely at timely updates and end user feature updates?
A common misconception. Attorneys don't make things "more enforceable". They are simply a shield layer.
Oh, there are several of those. That's why the site I do tech support does not (and will not) use Xenforo on their alternative help site. Even though the developers "say" one thing, reality can be something else entirely different.
My aspect was pursuing criminal charges against sites that promulgated this type of data.
What Xenforo offers natively will not meet it without extensive modification. The simple forum format that Xenforo offers and what everyone buys is in reality a dead and gone offering, similar to the BBS I ran back in the 1980's. Forums were something that were popular back in the 1990's and early 2000's. But we are in 2024 and the users demand more of sites they visit generally now. So those that replicate the forum format and expect significant results are stuck in the past while others desire to move into the here & now and have a step into the future.
And your posts just reinforce that point of view.
Or it could presage the death of forum offerings. Even with what Invision offers in their suite, not many utilize all of it. That's the issue. There are people that are mired in the past and still think that forums are "where it's at". Sadly for them, reality steps up to slap them upside their dense head when they start a site based upon a forum and then it never gains traction. Once more, this isn't 1990-2005 when forums were hot. This is 2025 and there are different needs from the majority of the internet users, and Forums are NOT it. But be happy with that "simple forum offering" that Xenforo is. Not everyone has tens of thousand of dollars to push it to what it needs to be since the developers are not even concerned with offering end user improvements of any significance for the last few years.
Sorry, I was distracted when I said that. I meant a lawyer will strengthen the verbiage to close any loopholes that a commoner may leave open. Your "shield" comment is more accurate.
There are, but XF has revoked licenses before. I only know of 1, but it wasn't adult-related, though that can be shared. It's better safe than sorry to draw up a plan and submit it for approval, so that the license cannot be revoked if the guidelines agreed to are strictly enforced.
This one alone pretty much nullifies your argument.
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Any Invision board top that? Edit: I know it has a custom style and some ThemeHouse add ons, but to get that would still cost less than Invision.
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