Forum Software Drama Killing Forums

Tracy said:

Sure takes it a while then for them to collect the information.
Average session engagement time is 2 minutes. If it was a few seconds I would agree.

Click to expand...

Have you used ChatGPT Thinking version? Sometimes it takes almost a minute to spit out a big answer

Shawn Gossman said:

Have you used ChatGPT Thinking version? Sometimes it takes almost a minute to spit out a big answer

Click to expand...

Yes, but the in depth analysis and explanation is miles better.

Shawn Gossman said:

It's just like getting traffic from Google Search. It's collecting information to display on its end.

Click to expand...

Sure, but you're still getting links and valuable users from that.

Search any of your blogs or websites on an AI system, you will see a link directly to your content. If it's not linking to your content, correct it and tell it that the information is wrong.

Being visible is key here, I don't believe it's a bad thing if AI systems have your content indexed and surfaced. It is still potential members and visibility in the long run. If you don't want them surfacing your content. I'd block every single crawler via Cloudflare or .htaccess.

But, as for me, I'll allow them to do so. I'd rather be in multiple places, instead of one. If a user can ask an AI system a question and get linked to my community, my job as a forum owner is complete.


Before long, Google's AI systems will be fully rolled out as well, so being ranked on Chatgpt or any other AI systems is quite similar to be ranked/surfaced in Google's AI services as well.

Also, ChatGPT uses Google for some of their content as well, so if you block off AI crawlers, you'll be blocking Google at the same time. AI crawlers don't waste that much bandwidth, or server space by crawling and indexing, so they can index/crawl all they want. As long as I'm ranking, getting traffic, and receiving new visitors, I'm content with that.

We're in the information and visibility day in age of the internet. The more seen, and visibile your site is, the better off it'll be in the short term/long term.

Cedric said:

If forums don’t adapt to this, support forums will eventually be replaced.

Click to expand...

I believe ChatGPT already replaced support forums.
I don't remember if I ever made a post on xenforo support forum.

Mike30 said:

I believe ChatGPT already replaced support forums.
I don't remember if I ever made a post on xenforo support forum.

Click to expand...

I totally agree.

I go to ChatGPT for all my support needs. It's easier and quicker.

I hate that, too. Support forums are a popular niche...

Mike30 said:

I don't remember if I ever made a post on xenforo support forum.

Click to expand...

I honestly only remember getting a VERY few responses on any requests for assistance over on their forum since 2012. Generally I ended up answering my own questions.

Speaking of which... I notice that the activity over on them XF site is not what it once was. I have to wonder if that's partially because of the change of attitude from the developers on participating/providing supporting in the forum areas.
I've visited as guest and noticed several posts asking for assistance in the forums and they go days and days with no response.

It's rather ironic in the support changes on sites recently.
At one time Invision pushed their license holders to use tickets for issues instead of their support forum.
Xenforo license holders laughed about that and bragged how they got support in the forums direct from the developers. Now it seems that the tables have turned and Invision provides their support primarily in the forums area and Xenforo has become more reliant on tickets.

Tracy said:

I honestly only remember getting a VERY few responses on any requests for assistance over on their forum since 2012. Generally I ended up answering my own questions.

Speaking of which... I notice that the activity over on them XF site is not what it once was. I have to wonder if that's partially because of the change of attitude from the developers on participating/providing supporting in the forum areas.
I've visited as guest and noticed several posts asking for assistance in the forums and they go days and days with no response.

It's rather ironic in the support changes on sites recently.
At one time Invision pushed their license holders to use tickets for issues instead of their support forum.
Xenforo license holders laughed about that and bragged how they got support in the forums direct from the developers. Now it seems that the tables have turned and Invision provides their support primarily in the forums area and Xenforo has become more reliant on tickets.

Click to expand...

It seems that some of the "hardcore" fans now finally have noticed that attitude, the silence and empty promises and are beginning to question it all.

Cedric said:

It seems that some of the "hardcore" fans now finally have noticed that attitude, the silence and empty promises and are beginning to question it all.

Click to expand...

Yeah, I noticed some well known XF apologist were starting to get a little vocal and pulling back on their participation over there.
The XF developer attitude and sheer arrogance towards their license holders was what finally got to me and got me so vocal about them. The XF of 2025 is NOT the XF of 2012 as far as developer attitude towards the folks that line their pockets was. They seem to think they are entitled to be worshipped after having a vocal few kiss their arse for so long.

All I'm hoping for is for a stable 2.4 with a quality editor to get out.
How many months are they behind on that now?

The pity is... XF had (and still has) great promise.... if the developers that are supposed to be guiding the path to excellence would pull their heads out. I guess they don't want to have to hear that POP! sound when they do.

Of course, what do I know.. I'm just that radical anti-XF guy that likes burning 'em down all the time.
Never mind that I was a BIG supporter for over a decade nor that I also have had ZERO issues calling out other script developers with issues as I perceive as problematic. It just seems that a certain XF developer with the first initial Chris had issues with being called out. At least the Invision guys had the cajones to deal with it as adults and the Wotlab guys would discourse on their reasoning behind their decions other than "Because I'm <fill in the blank>" like Xenforo does. They also didn't go running to Momma crying "Hey this guy said mean things about me so we gotta make him pay" like a child (hi certain XF developer that is mentioned in this post). That action itself told me all I needed to know about Xenforo with Chris at the helm. And that was to avoid them if looking to get into the paid script offerings.
Hell, it's bad enough that Discourse is getting to where it puts the Xenforo mighty it's mainly a forum (per the XF apologist) offering to shame, and you can get Discourse for free on self-hosted pursuits and for a base forum it is beyond what Xenforo offers in most every aspect.

Either they (in this case the XF developers specifically) are incompetent, liars (but that could fall into the incompetent arena), burnt out or they are struggling financially. In any of those cases, it's not a good sign. They really need to wake up and smell the roses. ALL forum format script offerings are suffering. And maybe... just maybe... their license holders actually know better than those gods in the ivory tower do on what can bring users to the table.
The sad thing is, from my few interactions with Chris I had developed a level of respect for him... but power can corrupt.
There is an old saying... Pride goeth before the fall. And some scripts (Xenforo specifically) are appearing to be looking at a mighty fall.

And again, I want to emphasize.. I love the XF script and its possibilities. What I hate is the attitude that XF has (d)evolved to over the last few years. Thanks Chris!

I guess I should mention... the actions that were brought on by Chris being butt-hurt was apparently thought to be a route of intimidation. Guess what... it is not when it comes to me personally.
All it has done is make me more likely to call out the issues I notice in public instead of dealing with them in private.
And no, I'm still not interested in getting a refund for my license extension for XF into 2027.

What people want for their forums is their business. It's all subjective really. I mean, if people want some super-fast dedicated hosted XF setup, that's their call or if they want a simple MyBB setup, or even something on a subdomain (like with Forumotion, ProBoards, Jcink).

I suppose all the dissing of forum software is from competition. It's like people wanting the best car to impress people, stuff like that, but not everything has to be evolutionary driven LOL.

Jason said:

What people want for their forums is their business. It's all subjective really.

Click to expand...

That depends. If all you want is a forum to discuss stuff, but the users of websites want more and you want to gain traction the you really need to offer that more. So yes, it is subjective to the admin... and frequently that admin "want" is out of step with what the users want - the thing that actually keeps your site active and drives growth.
And then you have developers that are stuck in their way that either refuse to see what the current use patterns by users are or do see and choose to ignore it.

The market for forums (both from the admin aspect and the end user aspect) is shrinking. Yes, there are a few admins that are "gung-ho" and think it's still just fine, but society is moving onward and interacting with others over the internet in a different way. And most current forum structure does not offer what they are looking for.
And this is where a lot of the drama comes into play. You have people that have been "down that road" before (hello BBS) and don't want to see it repeated and get vocal about it. Then you have those that are more more into the fantasy of "all is right with the world", while ignoring the elephant in the room. Those are generally the fan boy/cheerleader group you see that tout how great a product is and refusing to acknowledge that it has issues.
As I mentioned above, it seems that some of that group from the XF crowd may actually be starting to wake up to what is and not what they wished it was. And they are beginning to speak out.

Niche targeted sites will be able to hold out longer, especially if they have been around awhile. Think about it. Just how many "general chat" style forums can you have in existence and expect them to take off?
Or how may sites talking about world politics or even niche targeted when there are already many others that have been around and in use in that niche. Anyone that has been around for any length of time knows how many sites we see pop up with an eager admin... only to see those sites go down in 6 months to a year because the expectation of "they will come" was unrealistic.

And I think we all know that forum developers of paid forum scripts really would rather that knowledge not be spread widely as it will impact their bottom line financially. The less useful a product becomes, the less need for it there is. This is especially true if there are other products out on the market that offer basically what you do but do it in a more modern way with more modern options and do it for less.

Tracy said:

That depends. If all you want is a forum to discuss stuff, but the users of websites want more and you want to gain traction the you really need to offer that more. So yes, it is subjective to the admin... and frequently that admin "want" is out of step with what the users want - the thing that actually keeps your site active and drives growth.
And then you have developers that are stuck in their way that either refuse to see what the current use patterns by users are or do see and choose to ignore it.

The market for forums (both from the admin aspect and the end user aspect) is shrinking. Yes, there are a few admins that are "gung-ho" and think it's still just fine, but society is moving onward and interacting with others over the internet in a different way. And most current forum structure does not offer what they are looking for.
And this is where a lot of the drama comes into play. You have people that have been "down that road" before (hello BBS) and don't want to see it repeated and get vocal about it. Then you have those that are more more into the fantasy of "all is right with the world", while ignoring the elephant in the room. Those are generally the fan boy/cheerleader group you see that tout how great a product is and refusing to acknowledge that it has issues.
As I mentioned above, it seems that some of that group from the XF crowd may actually be starting to wake up to what is and not what they wished it was. And they are beginning to speak out.

Niche targeted sites will be able to hold out longer, especially if they have been around awhile. Think about it. Just how many "general chat" style forums can you have in existence and expect them to take off?
Or how may sites talking about world politics or even niche targeted when there are already many others that have been around and in use in that niche. Anyone that has been around for any length of time knows how many sites we see pop up with an eager admin... only to see those sites go down in 6 months to a year because the expectation of "they will come" was unrealistic.

And I think we all know that forum developers of paid forum scripts really would rather that knowledge not be spread widely as it will impact their bottom line financially. The less useful a product becomes, the less need for it there is. This is especially true if there are other products out on the market that offer basically what you do but do it in a more modern way with more modern options and do it for less.

Click to expand...

Another thing to note is that some developers are not developing communities well, even with the most advanced software. But, note, I'm not judging anyone cause I been there myself.

While, on the other hand, somebody on Jcink or something is building great communities on a subdomain.