Was looking at buying XF site back from friend.. but

[Tracy]

I'll simply leave this link here. Do I agree with all he said? No, but I can feel where he is coming from.

Honestly, I just renewed my license for XF into 2027.. but if I had read this I would probably had second thoughts. And really.. there is NO way in hell that I am willing to for another $100 over to XF in addition to $500 to Brandon for a site and script that is glacial in its updates.
I seriously doubt that we will see 2.4 before the end of 2025 and it will be mid 2026 before 3.0 is even a gleam if one goes by the glacial XF update speed.

 

[Cedric]

Why you are still funding them is beyond me.

 

[Tracy]

Why you are still funding them is beyond me.

Had a tickly hair up my ass and since I had some spare cash and high hopes and went ahead and extended out another year to match with some of my add-ons since I knew that bumpkus was going to be done in 2025 no matter what **** the XF developers voice. I personally think a wet paper bag would win in any battle with them over getting anything of quality done by the end of 2025, 3/4 of a year later than they promised.
I keep hoping that they will come back to reality.. but then what their actual actions and comments they make intrude into reality.
As for as adding another $100 to Brandon's site to buy it.. nope, not going to happen. I was already hesitant about it. I'd rather buy a new license of Invision and give him than give any more to Xenforo.
But he is looking at Discourse.... so we may work a deal where I maintain the VPS and he has the site. The old site data will not carry across.. but I am tempted to have him use it for the alternative Xenforo support site that is currently running on NodeBB. It would be an easy way to document whether the Xenforo staff/developers are full of **** in their statments or not.
Honestly.. it's almost worth it to me to spend the $85 and update his license then acquire the license and domain (which would probably end up on Discourse also) and then move that XF license over to the alternative XF support site instead of using NodeBB.

 

[Shawn Gossman]

You know, I know that you all have issues with XenForo or at least the developers.

I don't. I get along with them all pretty well. But I don't really have any reasons not to. I'm satisfied with what I have been given. That's not to say that you don't have your right to be upset but for what I need XF for, I'm getting it.

However, I'm not too shocked if they don't get these bigger releases out because who is?

All the free platforms are definitely not going bigger these days. VB6 is updating but nothing that major. There is still a lot of improvement that should be done now instead of what they've been releasing.

Invision seems nice but aside from @Cedric forum, what other forum out there is utilizing it to it's fullest and is an active forum or big board? Most big boards are either VB (older versions), XF, or custom software.

I guess my biggest concern or statement here is who else is really doing any better than XF in the forum world these days?

 

[Tracy]

I guess my biggest concern or statement here is who else is really doing any better than XF in the forum world these days?

My issue is.. XF forum (their much praised core) itself is doing bumpkus on my site.
What IS carrying most of the load are the 1st and more importantly the 3rd party add-ons (in my case main XenAddons).
Xenforo itself really offers nothing to my site. In reality, I would be BETTER served with a system like Invision or Woltlab that I have a core structure and then add on topic of it with the ability to plug the add-ons I need into it.
The problem is.. there are no equivalent 3rd party add-ons to Bob's XenAddons for the other packages.

 

[Shawn Gossman]

My issue is.. XF forum (their much praised core) itself is doing bumpkus on my site.
What IS carrying most of the load are the 1st and more importantly the 3rd party add-ons (in my case main XenAddons).
Xenforo itself really offers nothing to my site. In reality, I would be BETTER served with a system like Invision or Woltlab that I have a core structure and then add on topic of it with the ability to plug the add-ons I need into it.
The problem is.. there are no equivalent 3rd party add-ons to Bob's XenAddons for the other packages.

So, you might not like this response that I'm about to give you but consider it...

If you need all these extra features, why don't you learn how to code and create them yourself?

Programming isn't easy. Learning it is definitely not easy, at least for me and I'm a lover of learning new things.

But the issue I see with your needs is that it's personalized needs. You want certain features that not everyone agrees with having out of the box. Therefore, you either pay for them to be created custom or learn how to do it yourself.

Now, if you feel that I'm wrong in suggesting this, then tell me what features you need so much that should be default that everyone would also need.

The Link Directory isn't one. Not everyone wants to allow links. In fact, most of the biggest forums online do not allow you to promote your stuff, even if you upgrade to a premium account.

Directories are niche. Social groups are niche. Media galleries are niche. Chat boxes are niche. I've seen plenty of forums in my time that do not want any of that.

I guess that's my main question here. It isn't to offend you, either. I'm just trying to understand why you feel a forum developer is not doing good enough at developing other things that's not a forum.

 

[Cedric]

You know, I know that you all have issues with XenForo or at least the developers.

I don't. I get along with them all pretty well. But I don't really have any reasons not to. I'm satisfied with what I have been given. That's not to say that you don't have your right to be upset but for what I need XF for, I'm getting it.

However, I'm not too shocked if they don't get these bigger releases out because who is?

All the free platforms are definitely not going bigger these days. VB6 is updating but nothing that major. There is still a lot of improvement that should be done now instead of what they've been releasing.

Invision seems nice but aside from @Cedric forum, what other forum out there is utilizing it to it's fullest and is an active forum or big board? Most big boards are either VB (older versions), XF, or custom software.

I guess my biggest concern or statement here is who else is really doing any better than XF in the forum world these days?

There are plenty forums on Invision, big ones, smaller niched ones. But it’s clear the forums we browse the most are XF ones. I’ve been around on Invision for almost a month, and I’ve seen some great forums. None that really interest me personally, but it’s nice to browse around.

It’s no secret Invision focuses more on the business ones rather than hobbyists, but rest assured, hobbyists are still very welcomed and supported by Invision.

The tone Invision’s support team has is MILES better than the ignorant people on XenForo.

 

[Shawn Gossman]

There are plenty forums on Invision, big ones, smaller niched ones. But it’s clear the forums we browse the most are XF ones. I’ve been around on Invision for almost a month, and I’ve seen some great forums. None that really interest me personally, but it’s nice to browse around.

It’s no secret Invision focuses more on the business ones rather than hobbyists, but rest assured, hobbyists are still very welcomed and supported by Invision.

The tone Invision’s support team has is MILES better than the ignorant people on XenForo.

Why do you call them ignorant?

Also, is there a good directory or post somewhere that shows Invision forums out there? I'd love to see more of them and how they utilize the features that come with it. The features look interesting to me.

 

[Tracy]

If you need all these extra features, why don't you learn how to code and create them yourself?

Because I am 62 (almost 63) years old and have better things to do with my short time left on this planet like learning more about the aspects of my hobby niche.

But the issue I see with your needs is that it's personalized needs. You want certain features that not everyone agrees with having out of the box. Therefore, you either pay for them to be created custom or learn how to do it yourself.

Which I already do by the approximatley $2000 initial cost and around $800-$1000 a year for renewals that are NOT recouped from any outside sources.

My point is.. the XF philosophy of "a forum is all that is needed" may have flown in 2000..and maybe even up to 2010... but we are in 2025 where the internet users require much more.
And for those that cannot see that... I am not going to take the time to explain reality to them.

 

[Cedric]

Why do you call them ignorant?

Also, is there a good directory or post somewhere that shows Invision forums out there? I'd love to see more of them and how they utilize the features that come with it. The features look interesting to me.

Yes, but it’s posted in the community manager’s forum which is only permitted by license holders.

Shawn, it’s clear you don’t spend much time interacting with XF. There’s plenty of topics where XF is ignorant towards their customers, and then there’s also the support tickets.

 

[Shawn Gossman]

Yes, but it’s posted in the community manager’s forum which is only permitted by license holders.

That's too bad. Maybe I can search for the credits or something and find some.

Shawn, it’s clear you don’t spend much time interacting with XF. There’s plenty of topics where XF is ignorant towards their customers, and then there’s also the support tickets.

I'll be honest, I don't visit the main support forum that much. I always try to figure things out myself just for the knowledge and experience.

I was just wondering.

 

[JoelR]

glacial in its updates.

On one hand, I appreciated XF sharing the update to explain why they postponed (maybe that's not the right word, but certainly re-evaluated a delay) their latest release.

On the other hand, an excuse for slow development is still - at the end of the day - an excuse.

XF is a software where it only makes sense to renew strategically like once every 4 to 5 years. I really do think people are lulled into complacency by the low renewal prices ("oh its not too bad, let me renew for another year"). When you actually evaluate that you paid 4 - 5 years worth for one release (!), then your actual expense per release becomes expensive! But you also need to take into account that your community has also lost out on perhaps the most expensive thing of all - losing 5 years of modern development as the rest of the web moves on.

 

[Shawn Gossman]

I guess I could get the slowness for the cost aspect of it.

I have like 4 licenses that are expired. However, I won't renew them until it's time to update. I see no reason to spend $90 for something that has no new updates. I'll just wait until they make a new release and then renew and update.

 

[Cedric]

Forums are a dying breed. The sales of new licenses and renewals are thinning out each year. So if XF doesn’t adapt, that company will hardly have any income in the next 5-10 years. If anyone thinks the development will increase while their income decreases, you’re delusional.

 

[Cpvr]

You know, I know that you all have issues with XenForo or at least the developers.

I don't. I get along with them all pretty well. But I don't really have any reasons not to. I'm satisfied with what I have been given. That's not to say that you don't have your right to be upset but for what I need XF for, I'm getting it.

However, I'm not too shocked if they don't get these bigger releases out because who is?

All the free platforms are definitely not going bigger these days. VB6 is updating but nothing that major. There is still a lot of improvement that should be done now instead of what they've been releasing.

Invision seems nice but aside from @Cedric forum, what other forum out there is utilizing it to it's fullest and is an active forum or big board? Most big boards are either VB (older versions), XF, or custom software.

I guess my biggest concern or statement here is who else is really doing any better than XF in the forum world these days?

A lot of boards are also utilizing discourse.

Especially the 32bit cafe, which is a webmaster/coding help forum.

32-Bit Cafe

A community of like-minded website hobbyists and professionals helping to make the web fruitful and bountiful again

discourse.32bit.cafe

You also have many forums using Xenforo as seen by @frm forum directory.

There are boards out there that we don’t even know about unless we go through his directory. We’re not google. We can’t pin point every board that’s running what software.

Xenforo powers about 40-50% of online communities where vBulletin probably powers about 5%.

The fact remains we are no longer in 2006-2016 when everyone and their momma was creating forums. This can be a good thing in itself as some of these boards shouldn’t have been boards to begin with.

Especially considering the fact that their owners just wanted a quick buck instead of focusing on the community building process itself.

You can also blame lots of people for shifting forums to discord channels or moving their forums to reddit itself. This is dumb as they don’t control these environments, but at the end of the day, they made their choices and decisions to leave the forum world.

We can only build and work on our own forums & focus on efforts on growing what we do have.

 

[Shawn Gossman]

We can only build and work on our own forums & focus on efforts on growing what we do have.

This sums it up.

We just got to do what we got to do to keep our communities alive.

I don't care if AAF turns into a Big Board or not in all honesty, I'm happy with the activity it's getting right now.

 

[Cedric]

This sums it up.

We just got to do what we got to do to keep our communities alive.

I don't care if AAF turns into a Big Board or not in all honesty, I'm happy with the activity it's getting right now.

I think big boards is out of the question for any board nowadays.

 

[Shawn Gossman]

I think big boards is out of the question for any board nowadays.

Unless you buy out everyone, I agree with that.

 

[Cpvr]

I think big boards is out of the question for any board nowadays.

What's the definition of a big board these days? 100k posts?

 

[Tracy]

I think big boards is out of the question for any board nowadays.

I have to agree. And that is why on my astro site I originally targeted as a resource for other types of content that do get quite a bit of traffic.